Prof. Dr. Eng.Salama Abdel-Hady

Translation Revised by : Magdy Abd Al-Shafy

Preface

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

I grew up in a village where people's love to and kindness to each other would never let you think to which religion any of them belongs. I never asked my friends at school who is a Christian and who is a Muslim. We shared the same values, the same features and even very similar names. With this background, I would like to introduce to my readers this dialog between a Muslim scholar and a Christian one. I have read the love and respect they show to each other between the words. The scholars concerned are two colleagues working in one of the high institutes affiliating with an Egyptian local university. Their institute sends them to deliver some lectures somewhere to students. On their way from Cairo to Aswan they engaged in this dialog and recorded it on a cassette tape and then wanted me to listen and enjoy it. They further asked if I would put it into a book without changing the content and put them anonymous. By and large, they see such a dialog as mere personal view which is not binding to scholars of both religions. In fulfillment of my promise to them, I have tried my best to record every single thing without addition or omission. I tried to put it in a arrangement conforming with the number of stops between Cairo and Aswan where they had to stop to eat something or drink something. I pray for your forgiveness for any inconvenience and wish you enjoy the whole thing.

I hope this dialog will increase the love and rapprochement between the citizens of this world ; Muslims and Christians.

The narrator

Prof. Salama `Abdel-Hady

First Stop: Cairo

Two friends who are working at a faculty of engineering met on the train traveling from Aswan to Cairo. Since they had a long journey ahead, they decided to spend the time in a reasonable and beneficial dialog that went as follows .

X: Based on our long friendship, can we discuss one of the most important things that may appear to be critical and untouchable between us despite its being the crux of the whole life?

Z: You mean our religions! You agree that we belong to the same country, share the same history, and worship the One God. I think there should be no sensitivity in this since we will tackle the issue with objectivity.

X: The main purpose of religion is the purification of man's soul and heart and makes him feel the Greatness of Allah and fulfilling His commands by being an example of righteousness. Therefore, there is no place for bias or hatred in our discourse and you know how close we are. The main purpose here is to foster this love and respect. We are searching for the truth which is an instruction of Jesus Christ as well as a clear command of the Qur'an: God says in the Holy Quran what means “O mankind! The messenger hath come unto you with the truth from your Lord. Therefore believe; ( it is) better for you. But if ye disbelieve, still, lo! unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.”[1]I will always adhere to the verse that reads: “And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender.2]

Z: It is really a good start since we both believe in the One God, and we are the followers of similar monotheistic religions. In Matthew and Mark and the rest of the books of the New Testament, it is written: “And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandment is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength; this is the first commandment.” (Mark: 12: 28-30) Also in John, Jesus used to talk to God saying: “that they might know thee the only true God.” (John: 17: 3) Also in Matthew, “None is righteous except God.” He also said: “To the Lord your God, your shall prostrate and Him only your shall worship.” The enemies of Jesus tried to accuse him of polytheism so as to bring him to the court but his assertion that he believes in one God did not prevent them from doing so.

: That is really good since we cannot see any difference between us. God has reiterated and highlighted this fact, that the belief in one God is the common ground that brings us together. Almighty Allah says in the Holy Quran what means : “Say: O People of the Scripture. Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).[3]

Z: True Christianity commands its adherents to Believe in God , the One

X: I agree and the Qur'an even tells us that you are the nearest to us in affection. God says in the Holy Quran what means : “Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who, believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messenger, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses.”[4] When we were still student, I admired a Christian writer very much. It was Nazmy Luqa ,who wrote a paper entitled: ‘Muhammad, the Message and the Prophet;. The paper showed me how much love those Christians carry for Islam and Muhammad. Also note that we were all sons of same forefathers. Our forefathers embraced Islam while yours kept their faith and so we are originally related to each other.

Z: We really love you, we share the same country, the same language, and the same blood and we two worship God. I really hold your Prophet and his Companions in high esteem. You do the same when you show a lot of respect to Jesus and his mother. Our Pope and clergymen memorize many Qur'anic verses and repeat them in so many places and public events.

X: Muhammad and Jesus tread on the same path. Muhammad is the nature successor of Jesus since they call for peace, love, salvation and lofty manners. We all believe in Jesus who said: “What if man gains the world but loses himself” and “Son of man came not to destroy the souls of people but to save them.” All these texts show how great manners there are in Christianity. We also respect Virgin Mary and the Qur'an says: “And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.” [5] True Muslims can never deny that Christianity had a great role in purifying the hearts of early Christians who supported Islam at its early stages. One of those is Waraqah ibn Nawfal, the cousin of the Prophet's wife Khadijah. When Khadijah , the prophet's wife ,took the Prophet to him to inquire about the nature of that thing that was revealed unto the Prophet. Having listened to him , he told the prophet that he is the long-awaited Prophet and it is the same revelation, that Moses and other prophets experienced , coming to him from the Creator. Also, we all remember the King of Abyssinia, who protected early Muslims who migrated to his country and even embraced Islam later on. Hercules, the King of the Romans, was convinced with the truthfulness of the Prophet and even tried to convince the delegation of pagan Arabs coming from Mecca that Muhammad is a true Prophet. We had so many of them including Solomon (known as Solomon the Persian ) In search for the truth , He ,being Magus, converted to Christianity and then was informed by Christian priests , who used to teach him that the true Prophet is about to appear in Makkah and then, based upon their instruction, he came to Madinah (the city of the prophet) and waited for the Prophet. People knew Moses and Jesus as Prophets and Muhammad was nothing new then. Furthermore, the world at that time was really in bad need to a Prophet. I myself listen to the sermons delivered in many Masses and find that the values and morals propagated in these sermons are in no way different from those propagated on Friday sermons.

Z: ok, then our dialog is then based on this love propagated by our religions and our main goal here is to find the truth. We should never insult the thinking or the creeds of each other; rather, we should be objective and fair so as to succeed.

X: The Holy Qur'an gives us an example of a very polite and excellent dialog between Abraham and his father: “O my father! Lo! there hath come unto me of knowledge that which came not unto thee. So follow me, and I will lead thee on a right path.”6]This should be our guide throughout this dialog and I suggest that we should record this dialog so that other people could benefit it.

Z: With pleasure!

Second Stop: Beni Suef (Egypt)

Z: Do not you agree with me that the apparent difference between our faiths should never lead to any kind of enmity or hatred between us since the Qur'an itself stresses this point.

X: I surely agree with you. You also can read in the Qur'an so many verses calling upon Muslims to believe in all Prophets and Messengers: “Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto Us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob. and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, add that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.”[7] The Qur'an also highlights the fact that if you believe in God ,the One and the True, then you are not a polytheist or unbeliever. Allah says: “Whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good, he verily hath grasped the firm hand hold. Unto Allah belongeth the sequel of all things.”[8]

Z: I myself surrender to God, the One and the True and find tranquility in this. There is a verse in the Qur'an that I love most. It commands us to remember the name of Allah frequently so as to feel tranquility and solace.

X: You must be referring to the verse that reads: “Those who believe and do right: Joy is for them, and bliss (their) journey's end.”[9] Do you know that a Dutch psychiatrist used to treat people plagued with depression by asking them to repeat the word Allah so many times and found it a very effective way in removing depression . He published his research in a scientific magazine this year.

: I also love to listen to the story of Mary and the proof purity and chastity as mentioned in the Surah of her Maryam in the Qur'an. We Christians learn and memorize a Quranic verses throughout our years of study. lot of We love it a great deal.

X: The Qur'an addresses all people not only Muslims and gives joy and benefit to all as Allah says: “O mankind! There hath come unto you an exhortation from your Lord, a balm for that which is in the breasts, a guidance and a mercy for believers.”[10] All people are invited to enjoy the guidance and the light of the Qur'an and live within its great mercy. Regular recitation of the Qur'an strengthens one's faith, and it gives him a feeling of peace and it teaches him how to stick to lofty morals and manners.

Z: This is exactly what Jesus said to us. He told us of the coming of another Prophet that is Muhammad. In John, you read:“I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit if truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that he shall speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16: 13) As Arabic is my mother tongue, I listen to the Qur'an a lot and try my best to do this on regular basis. The words Allahu Akbar (Allah is the Greatest) give me power and determination.

X: I get the same feeling when I am invited to a Christian friend's wedding in the Church. I feel I am in a Sacred place listening to sacred words and feel no difference between Muslims and Christians. One of my Christian neighbors is so close to me to the extent that people think we are brothers.

Z: In my village, Muslims and Christians live together and exchange social visits at happy events and sad events. Even the feats served during the month of Ramadan at the time of breaking the fast, it is served for all people, Muslims and Christians.

X: I was extremely happy upon reading the paper written by Dr. Bebawi, a Christian researcher, on Islam where he defended Islam and proved that Islam has never been propagated by the sword; rather, through peaceful and wise call. Furthermore, he proved that all battles of Islam were waged for the very purpose of supporting the weak and defending the oppressed. Muslims who came to Egypt liberated the Copts from the Roman occupier and gave them freedom of faith and never turned their holy sites and churches into mosques. Egyptian Copts helped Muslims to get rid of the Romans who oppressed them. We all know that Muslims permitted Father Benjamin back to Egypt after Romans exiled him and even Amr ibn Al-`As appointed him as a personal advisor for himself.

Z: I wholeheartedly believe that the more awareness we have , the more love and respect for each other we cherish. When I meet any Egyptian abroad, I never ask if he is a Muslim or Christian, all are the same to me. It is because of this that I greet all with peace which is the command of Jesus himself.

X: Absolutely true. I don't recall that I have ever dealt with discrimination with Christians or Muslims. I had lots of friends and colleagues but never had that feeling. I also had so many Christian professors and I kept good feelings and showed gratitude to them. I hope Egypt can continue enjoying this brotherly spirit, for it saddens me a lot if I meet any person not cherishing the same feelings. We Muslims believe that you are very near to us and we should be peaceful with all those who are peaceful with us. Almighty Allah commands us: “Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo ! Allah loveth the just dealers.”(Al-Mumtahanah: 8)

Z: Do you know that all such people who have bigotry inside their hearts are really immature and lack thinking and real knowledge. Should they read about other religions, they would know how many things we share. I met a lot of people who revere Mary and Jesus. I believe that the strong faith of Muslims have led a lot of my fellow Christians to stick firm to their faith. In Europe, the case is different since atheism is everywhere.

X: In Poland where I got my degree, I witnessed how could communists destroy Christianity. They played a dirty game to remove Christian faith from the hearts, they used the contradiction between the statements of Paul and those of Jesus and said that he tried to formulate a new religion that has nothing to do with the religion of Jesus. They made use of the scandals of many Popes like Sergius III, John X, John XI and John XII and Raspotin.

Z: Yes, but I still believe that a true knowledgeable Christian would never get engaged into things that keep him away from his faith .

X: Don't you realize that while orientalists could never blemish the truthfulness of Islam or undermine it, those atheists could fight Christianity and destroy it in that place. Islam was born a strong religion, a complete one with a complete Shari`ah (canon) and system. As for Christianity, Jesus started his call by saying: “I came not to initiate, but to fulfill.” So, he was bringing a reforming movement rather than a new system. However, early Christians tried to propagate Christianity as a new religion, thus taking it away from its purpose.

Z: In its core, Christianity is strong since it calls for worshipping God , the One and the True. Jesus reiterated: “The first of commandment is: Behold Israel, God is our Lord is One God.” (Mark: 12: 9) Jesus kept saying: “I came to the astray sheep of Israel.” Then Christianity was altered to fit the Romans and the early Egyptians at that time. True Christians underwent a lot of hardship in their attempt to stop this corruption. We really need to purify true Christianity from this corruption and bring it back to its original monotheistic beliefs.

X: This true belief is exactly the same as mine, for all Divinely revealed religions are coming for the one purpose and the one call is monotheism. Almighty Allah says: “Is not He (best), Who produceth creation, then reproduceth it, and Who provideth for you from the heaven and the earth? Is there any God beside Allah? Say: Bring your proof, if ye are truthful!” (An-Naml: 64) Since our Lord is one, we will be judged before Him according to one law and one criteria. All Prophets call for good morals. Muhammad says: “Avoid prohibitions and you will be the most devout of all people and be pleased with what Allah has given to you and you will be the richest among people. Be good to your neighbor to be a true believer and love for people what to you love for yourself to be a true Muslim.” Jesus gives glad tidings to those that are meek that they will inherit the earth. He even said: “Love your enemies” and says: “God is Love” and Prophet Muhammad says: “The thing most weighing in once scale is good manners.” He also explains: “I have been sent to perfect the good morals.”

Z: I believe in this in the innermost of my heart . The deeper man's faith is and the wider his knowledge is, the loftier his morals become and the purer his heart is. He will cooperate with all people and be good to all.

X: I hope all religious leaders and clergy men understand these principles in full and gather followers of both religions on love. Muslims believe in the other i.e. they believe that Christianity is a true religion, they believe in Jesus as a prophet and great reformer and that the Gospel is light. Almighty Allah says: “And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)” (Al-Ma'idah: 46)

Z: We had a very simple man in my village whom my father put to the service of the church. Later on he was proclaimed a priest . This man kept on describing Muslims as being enemies to Christianity due to his lack of knowledge. He did not go that deep in studying religion, though he was supposed to do so. However, people kept on going to him for confession and getting their sins forgiven. You know that people interpreted some texts in the Gospel to justify the confession, though the fact that there is no clear-cut evidence that priests are able to forgive sins. Such an issue annoyed me a lot and I was almost turning to be an atheist. However, I believed in my heart that the Kingdom of God is boundless and His Forgiveness is manifold and He needs no mediation.

X: I believe too that forgiveness of sins and accepting repentance is the authority of God only and only Him can forgive and accept His sinful servants. The Qur'an testifies to this fact saying: “The Forgiver of sin, the Acceptor of repentance, the Stern in punishment, the Bountiful. There is no God save Him. Unto Him is the journeying.” (Ghafir: 3) and also: “Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.” (At-Tawbah: 80) Not a single clergy can claim this authority to himself and I believe it is a total corruption to believe that a human like you can forgive you, since we are all equal before God and to Him only we should return. Almighty Allah says: “Say: Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed. This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve.” (An-Nahl: 69-70)

Z: I believe that priests who claim such an authority in the past had no enough knowledge and were unable to converse and argue with people regarding certain points in the Christian faith and that is why they resorted to this fake thing to cover their faults and deficiencies.

X: Muslim scholars, I believe, should always be the graduates of Al-Azhar since the study in Al-Azhar gives them deep knowledge and make them well-versed in all fields of Islamic knowledge. I know that every Muslim should read extensively about Islam and know the matters of his religion. But the catastrophe happens when people who have no deep knowledge or understanding stand up to issue of fatwas and give their views in religious issues.

Z: Yes, the same happens when a priest with very small amount of knowledge or no knowledge at all takes the position of leading people and giving them religious guidance. In that case, he will brand all other religions as disbelief and call other people heretics and will over-occupy himself with the authorities given to him by the church and go far in very evil ways of thinking and behaving. In all these cases, people would find no way but to resort to atheism and cast religion aside. You know that Jesus explained that the true life is to know God; so knowledge is the way to success. He said in John (16: 3:) “Such is the eternal life that they know You, the one true God and Jesus Christ whom You sent.”

X: It appears that your thinking is very much in consistence with Islam; that is the belief in the One true God ,Who is far from any associates and showing reverence and servitude to Him since He is the Creator of this Universe. Almighty Allah says: “Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!” (Al-A`raf: 54) And also: “He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Knower of the invisible and the visible. He is the Beneficent, the Merciful. He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Sovereign Lord the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him). He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.” (Al-Hashr: 22-24)

Z: Such verses call upon man to show submission to God Who created this universe. It is because of this that Muslim scientists used to use the word ‘Creation' instead of ‘Nature' because the former shows that it is created by Allah and its laws are celebrating His bounties and singing the hymns of His Ultimate Glory. Research in this field of knowledge was meant to please Allah and was thus a form of showing gratitude to Him. That is why science showed a great deal of advancement at the hands of those early Muslim scientists while early priests of Medieval Ages oppressed scholars and persecuted them and thought of knowledge as being an opponent to religion.

At that moment, the train arrived at Al-Minya Stop and we had to pause for a while.

Third Stop: Minya

X: I have a firm belief that one of the main reasons that Islam is still as strong till the present time as it was at its early days is that Almighty Allah has preserved the Qur'an from corruption and alteration. Being the final message to humanity, Islam brought us back to the pure innate of man and recorded its guidance in the Qur'an as brought by Gabriel to Prophet Muhammad. Such guidance was kept intact in its original form throughout centuries and many Muslim scholars started getting knowledge and explaining the details of this Shari`ah. Now, the Qur'an stands as the ultimate source of guidance and the standing proof for the truthfulness of Muhammad. Almighty Allah says: “O mankind! Now hath a proof from your Lord come unto you, and We have sent down unto you a clear light.” (An-Nisa': 175) Almighty Allah also says: “There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.” (Al-An`am: 38) It tells us the stories of the early nation so that we take admonition as it says: “In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.” (Yusuf: 111)

Z: You are quite right. In its words and style, the Qur'an is miraculous. Arabs of that time were unable to produce the like of it though they mastered language and eloquence. The miracle of Qur'an is of an eternal nature meaning that it stays till the Day of Judgment.

X: Every sensible person would surely believe that Qur'an is coming from the Divine Source since it contains miracles of all types; philosophical, legislative, moral, spiritual and scientific. At the time of its revelation, the Qur'an represented a challenge to Arabs who declared their inability to match it or even produce what is as small as one verse.

Z: This great book helped Muslims stand firm and stick to their religion, follow their Prophet and apply their rituals. Sharing the same country, Muslim and Christians in Egypt worked together to stick each to his own faith. That is why Egyptian Christians did not experience the same problems that Westerners had at the hands of atheism. Due to their lacking of an eternal miracle that keeps their hearts at ease, you can find that Christians believe that Virgin Mary appears sometimes, something which has been misused by some fabricators who use media means and cinema stuff to produce some images and give people a fake belief of something like that.

X: Christianity did not have such a strong start as that of Islam. The record of the life of Prophet Muhammad shows that in a number of years as small as 23 years he was able to establish a state that fought against the Super Powers of the world; Persians and Romans. In less than one century after the death of Prophet Muhammad, the Companions were able to carry this guidance to the whole world. They were trustworthy protectors and heirs of this religion. Contrary to this, Christianity started as a religion coming for the main purpose of guiding the astray sheep ofIsrael and then, after the death of its founder, people subjected it to their whims and inclination and altered its heritage in a way that led, in the end, to the clergymen appointing themselves mediators between people and their Lord.

Z: You are quite right. Some clergy still insist that they stand between man and his Lord, they say they have connection with God and it is only them who can understand Christianity and its secrets. They even go farther to say that none of their people can be close to God as they are. This led them to claim that if anyone annoys them, he will be harmed. Such beliefs still exist at this age of science and technology where people have been disillusioned from superstitions.

X: I believe that the main role of Muslim scholars and religious leaders is guiding people and telling them what is religiously correct and what is wrong. You can find very simple people who have studied religion and apply what they have learnt. So the basic notion of religion is to inculcate in man the sense of fearing God. In this way, man will gain God's protection and love. Almighty Allah says: “Lo! Verily the friends of Allah are (those) on whom fear (cometh) not, nor do they grieve. Those who believe and keep their duty (to Allah)? Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter. There is no changing the Words of Allah that is the Supreme Triumph.” (Yunus: 62-64) Therefore, we Muslims looks at our scholars and religious leaders as people who are specialized in Islam but have no authority other than the spiritual one that is given to them by merit of knowledge. Simple people can, by means of their faith and God fearing, gain Allah's pleasure and assistance. As for those whose hearts are full of arrogance and pride, they have no place in Islam. In Islam, there is no place for mediators, since man has a direct connection with Allah.

Z: The concept of religious leaders in Islam is different from it in Christianity since our religious leaders believe that they are close to Jesus and thus have the authority to be mediators between God and people.X: Yes, this is what the Qur'an blamed them for when saying: “They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!” (At-Tawbah: 31) Following this was of thinking is really dangerous since it gives man a feeling that he works under the authority of someone other than God and he does not have direct connection with his Creator. This has led many people to revolt against priests during the Renaissance ages and shunned the idea of religion altogether.

Fourth Stop: Asuit

X: You may give me some satisfying answers regarding the issue of the original sin and how Islam and Christianity look at it. Of course, this issue is viewed differently in both religions.

Z: I do not like the word ‘different' since I basically agree that we share the core of faith but what appears to be difference needs to be discussed in detail. Basically, you can find that some creeds are wrong because they are incoherent not because they differ with something else. You will, driven by your logic and supposedly true understanding, discover the incoherence in them. Let me explain this point to you as follows: You say that God is Love, right? How can God be Love while He issues His judgment to punish all people and destroy them till the coming of Jesus. This was the first question presented by an old priest to his seniors who replied that Adam committed a major sin and so his progeny were to be punished, though the fact that God is Love. The priest replied that God's justice supercedes(goes forth) His mercy but there is no justice here since He is punishing someone for a sin he has never committed. The man added that destroying the generation that came after Adam till the time of Jesus means destroying a lot of pious Prophets including Moses, Jacob, Joseph, and Zechariah. In addition, this goes in contradiction with the saying of Jesus himself in Matthew (16: 27:) “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

X: The Qur'an gives us clear cut text in this regard: “Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until We have sent a messenger.” (Israa: 15)

Z: So the whole point is that people in the past used to accept certain dogmas and beliefs that later proved to be in need of reconsidering and reviewing. The basic of man's relation to God is love. Yet, people introduced many other notions that forged this original relation and made it far from its original true essence. What we need is to bring this belief back to its clear and clean origin.

X: Do you know that Allah preordained for Adam to leave Paradise after experiencing the whole issue of eating from the forbidden tree. Almighty Allah created man and knows what type of inclinations there are inside him. He wanted to teach Adam a lesson that is whoever disobeys Allah will be punished and when he repents, he will be always welcome to the fold of forgiveness. Almighty Allah says: “But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a tune. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful.(Al-Baqarah: 36-37) Therefore, Adam learnt the lesson.

Z: Reading through the Gospel, I can find no connection between Jesus mission on earth and Adam's sin. I believe that Jesus came to help man be better and overcome the materialism that decayed his heart and to advance spirituality. I also believe that the Gospel flows from the same Divine source of the Qur'an in terms that they both call for sticking to goodness and morality. Both books guarantee safety from punishment by having a pure heart and good work.

X: It is strange to believe that Allah, with His overwhelming mercy, cannot forgive Adam who turns to Him in repentance. The Qur'an tells us that Almighty Allah created Adam and appointed him a vicegerent on earth: God says in the Holy Quran what means “And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.” (Al-Baqarah: 30) Therefore, Adam's sin was preordained and Allah accepted his repentance and decreed to accept repentance from his progeny as well. Almighty Allah says: “And He is Who accepteth repentance from his bondmen, and pardoneth the evil deeds, and knoweth what ye do.” (Ash-Shura: 25) In this way, Allah taught Adam how to show repentance and his sin was really minor.

Z: What people commit at this present age is very grave and greater of course than that sin of Adam. Does each one of us need a Messiah to get his sin forgiven. This unreasonable notion of original sin has led so many Western Christians to leave Christianity. I really wish that we purify Christianity from such fake beliefs.

X: As I mentioned before, Islam has been very fortunate in terms of preserving its book from alteration or corruption. As for Christianity, the case is totally different since the sayings of Jesus has been recorded many centuries after his demise. Though recorded in writing at the time of `Uthman ibn Affan”, the Qur'an has been recorded in the hearts of the early Muslims since its revelation. Therefore, the Qur'an has been transmitted through an unbroken chain and we have many copies of the Qur'an dating back to 23 A.H. i.e. when Arabs started to know paper and how to use it. As for the Gospels, the oldest copy of it was written four centuries after the ascension of Jesus. Though written about the same person, each Gospel is written according the version of its author. One important thing is that they are not written in the same language that was spoken by Jesus himself.

Z: Yes, Gospels were never the revelation of Allah. They are by no means like the Qur'an, yet we revere them and respect them as Holy.

X: I find much solace and comfort when I read some parts of the Gospels that tell us about Jesus mysticism and his piety and struggle against deceit and materialism. However, some other parts make me confused since they are in no way consistent with mind. Read in Mark (16: 19:) “he was received up into the heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” You can also find many discrepancies in the Gospel like the lineage of Jesus which contains 42 fathers after David- who is number 35- according to Luke. In Matthew, David is number 14 and the lineage contain 27 fathers after him till Jesus who is number 41. The mission of Jesus extended for one year according to Mark and Luke while John says it has extended for two years. Such discrepancies raise so many questions regarding the authenticity of the text.

Z: We shall admit that Islam came to complete the mission of Jesus and explain any obscurity that might have arisen in the minds of people after Jesus. You say that when you read the Gospel you felt that it has something in common with the Qur'an but still it has been subjected to alteration and corruption. This leads me to say that though different and having a lot of discrepancies, the Gospels are still having some elements of being holy.

X: After reading the Gospel, I felt that the message of Islam is a continuation of Christianity and Muhammad was not something new. We Muslims were commanded to believe in the Gospel that was revealed to Jesus and believe in God. Almighty Allah says: “And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender.”(Al-`Ankabut: 46)

Z: Yes, Islam and Christianity are both the messages of Allah and we should never set difference between Divine messages. You can read this in Deuteronomy 33: “The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints.” Such a verse takes about the three Abrahamic faiths. God talked to Moses in Sinai and sent down revelation to Jesus in Seir and Muhammad received revelation at the mount Paran in Makkah. The point here is that faith is one unit and cannot be divided into parts. When you believe in one messenger, you need to believe in the rest. I myself find that the Prophet of Islam is an excellent example to be followed.

X: Yes, this is exactly what the Qur'an tells us to do as it says: “Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last Day, and remembereth Allah much.” (Al-Ahzab: 21) Jesus was also an excellent example to be followed.

Z: True, but he stayed only for two years and his mission was clear that is to purify the hearts and the souls from the overwhelming materialism. It is because of this that I believe his life was almost spiritual not practical one. It has much to do with the life of monks but Muhammad was different indeed.

X: Both of them were the messengers of Allah and each one of them played a role in building monotheism and inculcating it in the hearts. They helped humanity get rid of its weakness. We should never set difference between them, since Allah says: “The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers. We make no distinction between any of His messengers and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.” (Al-Baqarah: 285)

At that juncture they had to stop as the train stopped and there was much noise that prevented them from continuing.

Fifth Stop: Suhag

Z: In fact, heavenly religions complement one another. Many of our Egyptian forefathers who were originally Copts embraced Islam when they felt such a strong connection between Islam and Christianity and realized that Islam will add much to them. Islam really provides me with many answers regarding the creed of trinity which I find inconsistent and unreasonable at all.

X: Islam also teaches us that our minds are limited and we have no way to imagine how Allah looks like, since nothing is like unto Him. Almighty Allah says: “The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer” (Ash-Shura: 11) He also says: “Vision comprehendeth Him not, but He comprehendeth (all) vision. He is the Subtile, the Aware.” (Al-An`am: 103) Then, other verses tell us in clear words: “Or were they created out of naught? Or are they the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they are sure of nothing!” (At-Tur: 35-36)

Z: Actually, sometimes I repeat some Qur'anic verses that give me a feeling of tranquility and help me at difficult times, like the verse that reads: “Lo! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's sovereignty) for people who have sense.” (Al-Baqarah: 164)

X: Such verses direct your heart and mind to the signs of Allah that are manifest everywhere in the universe. There is another verse that Muslims are used to repeat as it gives them a feeling of serenity: “Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.” (Al-Baqarah: 255)

Z: It was Paul who called to deify of Jesus. Being Paul's student, Luke recorded that Jesus came down from the heavens and was incarnated in Mary's womb. There are many other inconsistent words and additions that could be found in other Gospels but they all proved false and unauthentic. Such additions show that those people who added them to the book of Allah were really vile and wicked. They tried to attract idolaters to Christianity and so added such things. Some parts of the Bible show that Jesus is the word of God and then we find some other parts saying that he is God himself. I cannot accept that the creator of earth and heaven be merely a word.

X: The Qur'an tell us that Jesus was created upon the word of God meaning upon his command ‘Be and it is'. This is clearly elaborated in the verses: “(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah)” (Al-`Imran: 45) So, Jesus Christ was close to Almighty Allah and he was His word meaning, was created upon His command. Almighty Allah promised Mary to beget a son without a father as He promised Zechariah that his wife shall beget a son at such an old age. Almighty Allah says: “And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: Allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah, lordly, chaste, a Prophet of the righteous.” (Al-`Imran: 39)

Z: I really feel confused when I read the first paragraph in John since it stirs a great deal of ambiguity. I do not know who is the author of such words? What makes the whole thing more complex is the fact that I cannot imagine that this great universe is a mere word and its Creator is a word too. Such sophisticated philosophical discourse-place our minds in nowhere and make us fall preys to Satan.

X: The Qur'an describes the process of the creation of the universe in clear words as it says: “Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?” (Al-Anbiya': 30) This shows that Almighty Allah created this universe out of nothingness and filled it with stars and planets, oceans and mountains. This has nothing to do with the so called big bang or the so called chance. The verses of the Qur'an go on to tell us that the One Who created the universe in this way is able to resurrect it again when it is completely destroyed. Almighty Allah says: “The Day when We shall roll up the heavens and a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.” (Al-Anbiya': 104) In this way, we should look upon the universe as a living proof to the existence of Allah and His supreme power.

Z: Such words remind man that the Day of Judgment is a truth and the Creator can cause it to happen again

X: Yes, you can read something like this in the verses that read: “Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth and (in) the difference of night and day are tokens (of His sovereignty) for men of understanding. Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth, (and say): Our Lord! Thou createdst not this in vain. Glory be to Thee! Preserve us from the doom of Fire” (Al-`Imran: 190-191) Pure nature would take man directly to believe in Allah, the Creator of the universe and the Owner of the Day of Judgment.

Z: I was always asking myself, who is stronger; God or Satan? According to my priest, God disguised Himself in the clothes of Jesus so as to deceive Satan and come safely to earth. Was God afraid of Satan?

X: I believe that the response to such heresy is found in the Qur'an. The verses of the Qur'an tell us that Almighty Allah is the Creator of jinn and men. Of course, the devil is one of the jinn but his worship raised him to the rank of being an associate of the Angels. When Almighty Allah commanded the Angels to prostrate them-selves before Adam, they obeyed but the Satan revolted. There, he was driven out of Paradise . Incited by his hatred for Adam and his offspring, the Satan pledged to try his best to mislead men. Yet, he has no power or might in front of the power of faith and strong connection with the Most-Powerful. The Qur'an relates this as follows: “And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud. He said: Then go down hence! It is not for thee to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! thou art of those degraded. He said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead).” (Al-A`raaf: 11-14)

Z: Yes, this is the truth. Allah is the only sovereign of this universe and to Him everything belongs. When Adam sinned, Almighty Allah would forgive him without any problem. It is really unreasonable to believe that Allah would let His son i.e. Jesus be humiliated and tortured in that way. Which one of the two sins is bigger; Adam eating from the forbidden fruit or God's son being humiliated ; how it passed unnoticed.

X: I believe that a true Christian should try to save his mind from all these fake creeds and get to the pure religion of Allah. I find a big confusion when I think about the Cross for example

X: I believe that a true Christian should try to save his mind from all these fake creeds and get to the pure religion of Allah. I find a big confusion when I think about the Cross for example.

Z: I asked the local priest of my village about the significance of the Cross and whether it has been mentioned anywhere in the Gospel and whether it has ever been referred to as a source honor and respect. The man cried in my face that I should repent to God from such thoughts and never ask such questions again. I said unto myself, what is the benefit of our minds then if we crippled them and stopped thinking? We all know that the Cross has been used as a Christian symbol as of 325 AC during the Neicheia Synod . However, it has been before by Pharaohs in a little bit modified form that is the key of life. That is why you can see it engraved on the walls of their temples and Holy places. These drawings date back to thousands of years before the birth of Jesus, for such people believed such life keys would be the means through which their dead people could come back to life. Later on, Christians took that symbol and actually, this meeting of Neicheia witnessed the killing of so many pure and true Christians who refused that symbol and refused to believe in Trinity. All such things place a lot of concerns regarding this symbol.

X: I believe that the best words describing the greatness of Allah and His might and power are those in Surat Yunus that read: “Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind? Unto Him is the return of all of you; it is a promise of Allah in truth. Lo! He produceth creation, then reproduceth it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity; while, as for those who disbelieve, theirs will be a boiling drink and painful doom because they disbelieved. He it is who appointed the sun a splendor and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge. Lo! in the difference of day and night and all that Allah hath created in the heavens and the earth are portents, verily, for folk who ward off (evil).” (Yunus: 3-6)

Z: As a cultured Christian, I refuse mysterious and ambiguous things ; I like to have everything clear before my eyes. That is why I am trying to inquire about the truthfulness of these creeds, something which has also been done by Dr. Nazmy Luqa ,who was a Christian defending Islam and the Prophet and then embraced Islam and died a Muslim.

X: Do you know that Jesus came to call people to worship God? The Qur'an tells us: “When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me. Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path. But the factions among them differed. Then woe unto those who do wrong from the doom of a painful day.” (Az-Zukhruf: 63-65) All Prophets called people to this creed of monotheism. I wish we all go back to this great an pure creed.

Z: I share the same wish indeed with you, I hope all hearts are united and love dominate all people. While still being Christian with this mentality, I find a good chance to talk to my people and help them understand the truth.

X: I believe that one of the main reasons why Islam was able to overwhelm the hearts and stand strongly in face of materialism is its being a close to man's pure nature, since we are all the creation of Allah and Allah chooses Islam for us. That is why Allah says: “So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright the nature (framed) of Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not.” (Ar-Rum: 30) Islam also establishes the fact that there is no compulsion in religion since the truth has been manifest and clear and anyone shall choose for himself the destiny he goes.

Z: I believe that because of the pure nature inside me I was able to deny all human additions to the Gospel. When I travel abroad and tell people that though I am a Christian, I love the Qur'an and believe in it, they become very surprised and ask so many questions. In this way, I gain new supporters. In fact, I believe that the only way to turn those cultured atheists into true belief is to purify the Christian creed from what corrupts it. Many Europeans have read about Islam and they believe that Jesus was a human being, they reject trinity, deny original sin and confession and all that stuff. However, driven by their arrogance and pride, they tend to reject Islam. In addition, they have an incomplete understanding of Islam which also leads them to reject it.

X: This is simply what the Qur'an describes as it says: “Allah hath (now) revealed the fairest of statements, a Scripture consistent, (wherein promises of reward are) paired (with threats of punishment), whereat doth creep the flesh of those who fear their Lord, so that their flesh and their hearts soften to Allah's reminder. Such is Allah's guidance, where with He guideth whom He will. And him whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide.” (Az-Zumar: 23) I believe that what keeps a Christian from accepting us is his feeling that we do not accept the Cross.

Z: A Christian who does not have good mentality that enables him to think deeply, will find himself an easy prey to fake ideas and worn out thoughts that has been forged by insincere autocratic clergymen. There are many priests who tell their followers that swearing by the Cross is better than swearing by the name of God. They want those followers to cancel their minds and accept whatever is said to them.

X: It is really a great thing that in Islam we do not have such a thing. In Islam we have nothing like a Pope whom we should follow without thinking. In Islam, every Muslim is responsible for himself and those under his protection like his family and children. In fact, blind following of priest or religious leaders is really dangerous. It will be a representation of the case about which we are told on the verse that reads: “They indeed found their fathers astray. But they make haste (to follow) in their footsteps.” (As-Saffat: 69-70)

Z: Some churches succeeded in dominating the minds of simple people and started a system of their own in leading those people in a way that has nothing to do with the religion itself. People are led astray by them and they know nothing.

X: However, some Christians believe that the Cross is not merely to cross pieces; rather, it is a symbol of salvation since they relate the saying of Jesus: “Whoever wants me, let him carry his cross and follow me.”

Z: True, they claim that Jesus death and crucifixion is what Christianity is all about. However, a deep thorough reading of the Bible will show that most verses mention nothing about the Cross. Even the saying of Jesus you have just quoted, it refers to the fact that whoever wants to follow the steps of Jesus should start a struggle and care nothing about his life. Jesus calls upon us to fight for the Sake of God but never surrender to our Captors. If we are not to take it this way, then we are destroying human intellect and calling people to destruction. We cannot let our captors devour us while we are remaining silent.

X: This is exactly what the Qur'an tells us when saying: “Is it this Statement that ye scorn. And make denial thereof your livelihood?” (Al-Waqi`ah"(: 81-82) Such priests believe in their hearts that the idea of Jesus sonship of God and his death on the Cross are both fake and false. However, they tend to keep them to please people, something which is extremely dangerous. They think that by keeping this creed valid in the hearts of people, they will be kept in their places. However, they are fooling themselves God says in the holy Quran what means : “Lo! the hypocrites seek to beguile Allah, but it is Allah who beguileth them. When they stand up to worship they perform it languidly and to be seen of men, and are mindful of Allah but little. Swaying between this (and that) , (belonging) neither to these nor to those. He whom Allah causeth to go astray, thou (O Muhammad) wilt not find a way for him.” (An-Nisaa': 142-143)

I have asked my local priest many times if they have found any change in the life of human beings after the so-called crucifixion of Jesus and the same answer came from his mouth all the time that everyone has a limit for his knowledge and I should not know everything. He even went to warn me that I will get the curses of Jesus if I kept asking questions like these. As far as I understand, the world is the same sinful world and people are the same. Jesus, as witnessed by Paul, was crying on the Cross that God should help him get out of these pains. Then, the salvation was not death; rather, he wanted to get rid of the pains just like any other human being. Also Mark tell us that Jesus went to the heaven and sat on the right side of God. How can he be God and then sitting beside God? All this tells us that Jesus was never God and that he was not put on the Cross, it was some else. In fact, the oldest Christian sects like Serathians, Crebocratains and Baslidians confirmed that Jesus himself was never crucified; rather, it was one of his disciples. This is also reported in the Gospel of Barnabas, which was banned for a long time by the Roman emperor, Qustantein.

X: Do you not agree that, as a true Christian, it is better for you to accept the Qur'anic version of the whole story? Do not agree with me that the Qur'anic account is far way better and more accurate. In fact, all the sayings that have been traced to Jesus are a point of difference among Gospels. We read in the Qur'an: “And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, wise.” (An-Nisa': 157-158)

Z: Yes, of course. I even believe that God has put the facial features of Jesus on Judas and thus the Romans took him instead of Jesus. This means that Jesus was taken up to the heavens and was never killed. This betraying disciple showed remorse for betraying his master and teacher i.e. Jesus and started crying saying: “Eli Eli, why have Thou forsaken me!” This way is different from that of Jesus who used to call God saying: “Our Father who is in the Heavens!”

X: I feel for you that by denying crucifixion you will not be admitted to Heavens as priests say.

Z: This makes me feel sick! I really hate these words that are repeated by our religious leaders. They say that if you are a Christian and you have been baptized, then you are saved from the Fire. What are the merits of good deeds then? Is it sufficient for me to be baptized and then I can do whatever I want? Am I guaranteed Paradise when I am baptized? Then why should I be generous and kind with people? Where is Divine justice then? Such words are really frustrating as they incite people to be bad to each other. In fact, many vile Christians use this to justify their committing of evil deeds. Human self tends to be bad all the time as Paul says. Since you tell people that a priest will be able to forgive their sins in return of a handful of money and that they will be blessed if they drink some wine claimed to have turned into the blood of Jesus, then why should people be good?

X: I feel for you that by denying crucifixion you will not be admitted to Heavens as priests say.

Z: This makes me feel sick! I really hate these words that are repeated by our religious leaders. They say that if you are a Christian and you have been baptized, then you are saved from the Fire. What are the merits of good deeds then? Is it sufficient for me to be baptized and then I can do whatever I want? Am I guaranteed Paradise when I am baptized? Then why should I be generous and kind with people? Where is Divine justice then? Such words are really frustrating as they incite people to be bad to each other. In fact, many vile Christians use this to justify their committing of evil deeds. Human self tends to be bad all the time as Paul says. Since you tell people that a priest will be able to forgive their sins in return of a handful of money and that they will be blessed if they drink some wine claimed to have turned into the blood of Jesus, then why should people be good?

X: Islam tells us that people's hearts and their nature is originally pure and that sin is what corrupts it. The concept of sin in Islam is very unique since it represents a violation of Allah's law and deviation from His code. However, on the individual level and the communal one, the door is always open to return and the process of return itself constitutes a sign of honor for man, since it is the return to the pure nature. Almighty Allah defines the main criteria for honor, that piety, as it says: “O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made `you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.” (Al-Hujurat: 13) Therefore, good conduct and fearing Almighty Allah are the best ways to get Paradise. Love, kindness, generosity and nearness to God are the real riches and treasures; whoever lacks such things, will be lacking everything even if he posses heaps of money. When Islam came to humanity, the Prophet purified the minds and the hearts of people from superstition and taught people how to be good to themselves and their fellow brothers and sisters in humanity, how to be peaceful to the world around and how to fear none but their Creator and how to spread all over the world carrying this guidance and light to people. That is why Almighty Allah says: “And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not.” (Sabaa': 28) This shows that Islam came to the whole world- not a single nation or a certain tribe.

Z: In fact, such accusations that are forged about Islam will never benefit Christianity; rather, they will damage Christianity itself.

X: I get very surprised when I ask a Christian university student, “Who is Jesus Christ?” and he does not have a definite answer. When I ask those students if they believe that Jesus was crucified, they say that they just know that he is salvation. Also, when I recite to them the Qur'anic verse that reads: “The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him”. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how we make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!” (Al-Ma'idah: 75), I stir many questions in his mind. How come that Jesus, who is claimed to be god himself, be betrayed by one of his students, humiliated at the hands of some riff-raff and shed tears. How come that god eats, drinks and urinates. How come that he is breast fed and is walking in front of people? God shall be far remote from these things and we should glorify Him as He says in the Qur'an: “And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand. Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).” (Az-Zumar: 67)

Z: They have no way but to accept what those priests tell them so as not make their families angry and make themselves subject to curses. What really puzzles my mind is the fact that many of those priests here in Egypt who insist on their fake creeds even after reading the Qur'an. They read day and night the words of Jesus that we should search for the truth. Yet, they think they are protecting Christianity while they are protecting their own interests. They keep saying that Allah has a son while He, Glory be to Him, is far from such superstitions.

X: Yes, Allah is above the laws to which human beings are subject. We read in the Qur'an: “Everyone that is thereon will pass away. There remaineth but the countenance of thy Lord of Might and Glory.” (Ar-Rahman: 25-27) Almighty Allah also says: All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Allah and He is the Mighty, the Wise. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth; He quickeneth and He giveth death; and He is Able to do things. He is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things.” (Al-Hadeed: 1-3)

Z: I always ask many good priests this question: Why do Christian not believe that God had forgiven Adam since he had leftParadise as He forgives all sinners who turn to Him in repentance? Why do we not accept the fact that God cannot be the father of anyone since He is unlike anyone and no one is like him? If they believe in such things they will save their followers. Why do they not accept that Jesus was a Prophet like all other Prophets? Why do they not tell their followers that they are accounted for their deeds in front of God and it is Him Who will reckon and reward or punish them. When we call God our father, it may mean that He is our Lord and not our real father. Why do they not say that Jesus was the same to God i.e. not a real son; rather, a Prophet and chosen messenger?

X: Your words remind me of the verse that reads: “O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him.” (An-Nisa': 171) Your logical thinking copes with mine since I also believe that deeds are the criteria that decides the destiny of man and not his being baptized or admitted into a religion. the Qur'an explains this concept saying: “It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper. And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date stone.” (An-Nisa': 123-124). Paradise is not gained by mere wishes, it is gained by hard work and agony.

Z: When I was young, I used to read about Jesus. Based on his description, I used to think of him as being a kind father, a big priest who comes to this world to teach people and needs their help in his mission.

X: As a Muslim, I believe that this universe is governed by a system that is known only to Allah, the Creator and functions in a way known to Him only. This is mentioned in the verses: “The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but hymneth his praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.” (Al-Isra: 44) That is why the Qur'an guides us to what makes our hearts shake and feel fear of Allah. We read: “If We had caused this Quran to descend upon a mountain, thou (O Muhammad) verily hadst seen it humbled, rent asunder by the fear of Allah. Such similitudes coin We for mankind that haply they may reflect.” (Al-Hashr: 21) You can get such a feeling of tranquility and serenity when you look at the faces of Muslims praying in their mosques. You will feel that they have tranquility inside and wish only for the pleasure of Allah. In the mosque there are no statutes like those found in a church, no pictures or nothing of the sort. There are no hymns, no hallelujahs; the only thing you will hear is the Qur'an that fills each heart with might and faith. Prayer can be conducted by an Imam, any learned Muslim who can also give a Friday sermon to teach his fellow Muslims.

Z: In a church, women wear full makeup to come and sit beside men according to a certain order. They even go to the church only to attend marriages, celebrations and other things. They listen to the sermon while listening to music at the same time. You go into a church and you will see many semi naked statutes claimed to be the statutes of Angels. What makes me feel sad is that some Christian priests here in Egypt insist on their stance and reject the truth; they have either to let people search for the truth or guide them to it.

X: This goes in consistence with the Qur'anic verse that reads: “O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve ye in the revelations of Allah, when ye (yourselves) bear witness (to theft truth ) ? O People of the Scripture! Why confound ye truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the troth?” (Al-`Imran: 70-71) Such religious leaders should tell the truth and beware of what their followers may say on the Day of Judgment: “And those who disbelieve will say: Our Lord! Show us these who beguiled us of the jinn and humankind. We will place them underneath our feet that they may be among the nethermost.” (Fussilat: 29) They should not be like Pharaoh who led his people astray. Here I would like to ask you one question, do most of educated Christians think in the same way of yours?

Z: I am sure that most of them believe in what I believe in, even though they cannot speak such ideas out. You must have heard about the American writer, Sir Michael Heart who wrote a book entitled: “100 Eternal Celebrity” and chose Muhammad to top his list. He confessed that Islam played a vital role in guiding humanity since it has liberated their minds from doubts and false ideas. Muhammad, being the greatest religious, political leader and reformist even known in history deserves to be number one in that list. It was him who taught people practically how to be perfect in everything. He was the best example to follow in all spheres of life. One of his students, being `Umar ibn Al-Khattab ruled the Muslim state with justice and equality and taught people that they are born free and not enslaved by anyone in this world. Therefore, no obedience is due to a creature if it involves disobeying the Creator. Many priests here in Egypt accept the Prophet and believe that he was really a great person.

X: Yes, I know many of them who believe that they need to believe in Islam for their Christianity to be valid since Islam is the final religion and the Qur'an is the final version. It is because of the alteration of the Holy Books that people started disputation. Almighty Allah says: “And they were not divided until after the knowledge came unto them, through rivalry among themselves; and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them. And those who were made to inherit the Scripture after them are verily in hopeless doubt concerning it. Unto this, then, summon (O Muhammad). And be thou upright as thou art commanded, and follow not their lusts, but say: I believe in whatever Scripture Allah hath sent down, and I am commanded to be just among you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. Unto us are our works and unto you your works; no argument between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and unto Him is the journeying.” (Ash-Shura: 14-15)

Z: I believe that many religious leaders call people to love God and they feel the responsibility of guiding people which is placed on their shoulders. Such priests cite the Qur'an in their sermons and refer to it all the time and their students follow their example in this regard. Other priests and fathers are blinded by their love for this worldly life and want to get money and would do anything for this. These may think that Islam will rip them off of their wealth and might.

X: I think they have fallen a prey to superstition and are enslaved by Jinn as the Qur'an says: “They will say: Be Thou glorified. Thou art our Protector from them! Nay, but they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them. That day ye will possess no Use nor hurt one for another. And We shall say unto those who did wrong: Taste the doom of the Fire which ye used to deny.”(Saba': 41-42)

Z: I am quite sure that whoever thinks deeply and with objectivity would reach the truth. I have attended so many good Christians on their death bed and they would pronounce the testification of faith (the pronouncement signaling conversion to Islam) before they die. Some of them even asked to be buried in Muslim graves.

X: Does not this bring you closer to Islam and farer from Christianity?

Z: Who told you that being close to Islam will mean my being far from Christianity? Muhammad was foretold by Jesus and was named by him in John: 16: 14 as it says: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that shall abide with you forever.” The "Comforter" refers to is Muhammad in this connection .

X: Such is a clear indication that Muhammad came with the truth and he does not speak out of his mind; rather, he tells us whatever is revealed unto him. Allah , the Almighty ,says: “Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired. Which one of mighty powers hath taught him?”(An-Najm: 3-5)

Z: Jesus is also reported as saying: “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness and of judgment.” It is Muhammad who brought a book that shows what is right and what is wrong and warn people against the punishment of the Hereafter.

X: The Qur'an also told us that Jesus gave glad tidings of the advent of Muhammad and gave him the name "the Praised One". We read in the Qur'an: “And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when be hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.” (As-Saff: 6)

Z: It is because of this that I really believe that when I read the Qur'an and believe in Muhammad, I am not far from the teachings of Jesus; rather, I am putting them into effect. In its early days, Christianity called people to a monotheistic belief. Only in 325 AC, Nicheiah synod fabricated the idea that Jesus is God and started putting Trinity into effect. In 383 AC, Emperor Theodosius threatened anyone who does not believe in trinity that he will be punished. In 496 AC, a decree damning the Gospel of Barnabas was issued by Gilasius. Later Emperor Qustentein burned all bibles that included the pure creed of monotheism and included the prophecy of the advent of Muhammad.

X: The Torah also contains some statements that the true religion will come from the Arabian Peninsula. We read this in Gensis (25: 13) and also in Deuteronomy (18: 18) “I shall raise unto them a Prophet from amongst their brethren like unto thee and place my words in his mouth.” We can see that there are many common things between Muhammad and Moses; each of them has a father and a mother, each of them performed miracles, each brought a new law and each of them led his followers in a migration. Jesus was unlike them in the sense that he was born without a father, he did not bring a new law and he did not migrate from his place to another country.

Z: Jesus told the Children of Israel that Prophethood will move to another people after they have killed John the Baptist (Yahya) and concocted many conspiracies against Jesus himself. He used to cite the Psalms to support what he says.

X: In Isaiah 42, we read: “Behold my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench; he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.” All these biblical descriptions are not far from what we read in the Qur'an when it says: “Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honor him and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.” (Al-A`raaf: 157)

At that moment they had to stop to eat something as the train broke down.

Sixth Stop: Nega Hamaddi

X: Would I ask one more question! What do you mean by the word ‘trinity'? And which form of God do you believe in?

Z: It is really difficult to find an exact answer to this. Nothing in the Gospel or the epistles of Paul referring to this thing could be found. In fact, this notion of trinity has caused a lot of difference among Christian theologians. When you come to ask some priests, they will say you should stop asking about things that are beyond your understanding. You know there is a big problem and fierce war between evangelists, protestants, orthodox and Jehovah witnesses in this regard. Some say that there is a union of three gods forming this Trinity and they are: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You may ask, then God is without Spirit and so He needs that Holy Spirit, and if yes, where is the spirit of God the Son then? If we agree that there are three forms of the one god, then how come that we say that Jesus (the Son) went up to the heaven and sat on the right side of God (according to Mathew)? Does not this mean that they are three different entities? Do the natures of these three have the same features? Does God the Father need a Son to inherit him? Is he old to need an heir? If there is God and Son, So, who is his mother? Is she a God also? All these questions are raised in an answer to this notion of Trinity. And I don't know why to complicate our belief in this way if we are not certain of any of these claims. Why should we increase the fuzziness of our belief if we are certain of a rather simple and robust belief given by Moses, Mohamed and is found in our Bible too?

X: I believe the only way to get out of this problem is to reject this trinity altogether and to believe in what all previous prophets told . Islam has told us, that God is One and He has no son, nor father, nor wife. Like Muhammad, Jesus came for the very purpose of guiding humanity to the way of their Creator. Almighty Allah says: “That is because Allah hath revealed the Scripture with the truth. Lo! those who find (a cause of) disagreement in the Scripture are in open schism.” (Al-Baqarah: 176) All messengers came to call people to submit to the One true God: “Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.” (Al-Ikhlas: 1-4) This is the truth told by Prophet Joseph: “And I have followed the religion of my fathers, Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. It never was for us to attribute aught as partner to Allah. This is of the bounty of Allah unto us (the seed of Abraham) and unto mankind; but most men give not thanks.” (Yusuf: 38) and confirmed by Jesus himself: “And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden. I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying) : Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.” (Al-Ma'idah: 116-117)

Z: When I was young, I went to my local priest to tell me who is the father of Jesus Christ. He returned my question with another: “Who is your father?” I replied: “You know my father, do not you?” He said, “I know him for sure. The same applies for Jesus, his father is God the Father.” I wondered: “Did God ,the Father, marry Mary the Virgin and they got Jesus as a result of that marriage?” The priest got furious and sent me away without giving me a satisfying answer.

X: A satisfying answer could only be found in the Qur'an where we read: “Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.” (Al-`Imran: 59) Just like Adam who came without a father or mother, God was able to create Jesus without a father, since nothing is impossible for God. It is because of this that whenever Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an, we find his name accompanied by the word ‘son of Mary' to confirm this fact. Almighty Allah says: “(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).”(Al-`Imran: 45)

Z: I have a friend who always directs his supplication to Mary since she is the mother of God and she is most likely to answer faster. There are many other supplications recited in churches directed to Mary like the one that reads: “O Mother of Personified Word! Reject not our supplications! Listen to our words and answer our needs! Amen!” You see, it is turning to be polytheism or rather idolatry again. People believe in Mary as the mother of God and would go directly to her and pray. They think foolishly that this will help solving the problems of corruption and drinking they have.

X: I believe that the worst thing man can ever commit is to associate someone in worship with his Creator. Man's heart has a place for no more than one God. That is why Allah forgives all sins except this one sin, that is worshipping another god other than Him. Almighty Allah says: “Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin.” (An-Nisaa': 48) In the Qur'an, we also read that the Holy Spirit is no more than a name of the Arch-Angel Gabriel who came carrying revelation to the Prophet and other prophets. Almighty Allah says: “Say: The holy Spirit hath revealed it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).” (An-Nahl: 102)

Z: This is what fathers of Christianity have agreed upon in the Synod of Necheiah; they said: “We believe in one God; Jesus the only son of God, the true God who is equal to his father in nature.” Then, they added to these two (i.e. God the Father and God the Son) a third thing which they called the Holy Spirit. They say that the three are one and the one is a union of a three and want us to believe in this hallucination.

X: Do not agree with me that basic religious facts need deep reflection and understanding; they cannot be based merely on doubt or superficial thinking. Almighty Allah says: “Most of them follow naught but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do.” (Yunus: 36)

Z: I believe that many modern theologians who have deep thinking reject the idea of the cross, the big sacrifice and the sonship of Jesus to God and other stuff. They believe that such things go in contrary with the words of Jesus: “Search for the truth.” That is why such theologians have started a pick and choose process where they go only for truthful things.

X: True, I can see now that many priests have views that are consistent with the truth. They try their best to save their followers from doubt and conjecture. It is very dangerous to think that you are following the right path while in fact you are absorbed by falsehood. Almighty Allah says: “Say: Shall We inform you who will be the greatest losers by their works? Those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work.” (Al-Kahf: 103-104)

Z: You are right. But still many of them are repeating good words while they bear corrupt ideas. They remind me of the proverb that goes: “A cross on the breast and a devil in the heart.” In fact, anyone who studies the Qur'an in depth would realize that it is the truth. However, those people are driven by arrogance and so insist on committing disbelief. About them and their peers, the Qur'an says: “Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god, and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?” (Al-Jathiyah: 23)

X: Another question, what is the real shape of Jesus? How does he look like? Which of the pictures we see of him here in Egypt or those we see in Italy or the third that can be seen in the US are more truthful? We have different forms indeed; so which one is the most truthful?

Z: I believe that those different pictures are no more than mere imaginations that has no basis in reality. That is why theologians would gather and decide to reject many of such pictures or omit some parts of the Gospel because of being inconsistent.

X: A Muslim is commanded to believe in everything contained in the Book of Allah and to believe in all Messengers. Almighty Allah says: “The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believeth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers We make no distinction between any of His messengers and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.” (Al-Baqarah: 285) No one can give himself the right to add or move some parts of the Book of Allah. I also find many paintings depicting Jesus on the cross. Some of them depict him while being tied to the cross while others depict him fixed to the cross by some pins.

Z: In fact, painters imagine many things that have no basis in reality. Also the issue of Jesus bleeding while on the cross, it is not mentioned in any of the gospels since Mark tell us that ‘all of them have left him and fled away.' I believe that if the one on the cross was really Jesus, the disciples would have never left him. This confirms the saying that it was Judah, not Jesus.

X: I think that all these details about Jesus being crucified were mentioned by Paul. Does any of the disciples agree with Paul on these details?

Z: No. In fact, the real name of Paul is Shaul of Tarsus. He is not one of the disciples and never saw Jesus in his life and none of the disciples agreed with him on what he said. Likewise, none of them agreed to accompany him in his missions to other nations. That is why he said: “No man stood with me, but all men forsook me.” (Timothy: 4: 16) Paul was always terrorizing the disciples and was supporting Jews in their suppression of the disciples and that is why the disciples kept silent and never dared to declare that he is a liar in what he says.

X: Then, why do you accept the sayings of Paul without investigating about their truthfulness? Why do not you search for the truth as commanded by Jesus. Almighty Allah gave us the ability to search for the truth and it is our duty to do so. Almighty Allah says: “The Beneficent. Hath made known the Quran. He hath created man. He hath taught him utterance.” (Ar-Rahman: 1-4) He, Glory be to Him, directs our attention to the fact that it is Him who gave us such faculties and we should use them in His service: “Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Who provideth for you from the sky and the earth, or Who owneth hearing and sight; and Who bringeth forth the living from the dead and bringeth forth the dead from the living; and Who directeth the course? They will say : Allah. Then say : Will ye not then keep your duty (unto Him)? Such then is Allah, your rightful Lord. After the Truth what is there saving error? How then are ye turned away!” (Yunus: 31-32) Why do you follow such whims and false sayings and reject the truth or stop searching for it.

Z: In fact, the history tells us of some groups and sects that rejected the sayings of Paul. One of these is the Paulinans who followed Paul the Smesatian of Antioch. They believe in the oneness of God. We have also the Arusians who followed Aruis and they also believe in one God. Their belief was about to overwhelm the whole world but politicians stood in face of it and Emperor Theodosius led a persecution against them.

X: Are not such sayings and those views sufficient for present day priests to purify Christianity from the fabrications that have been incorporated in it?

Z: Many of them know that the Qur'an contains the truth. However, some of them are led by their whims and desires. You do not know how big facilities and generous gifts are given to those people to stay on this fabricated belief. They know that Jesus came not to start a new religion; rather, to complete that of Moses but they insist on what they are told.

X: Yes, the words of Jesus that he came to fulfill are in consistence with the words of the Qur'an that are ascribed to him: “And will make him a messenger unto the children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me”(Al-`Imran: 49-50). As for the Qur'an, it is a new law and a perfect code for life. What is happening now is that priests make laws according to their own minds and whims and each church has its code that has nothing to do with Christianity. In some churches, divorce is permitted while others say that it is totally banned and prohibited. If they remember their stance in front of Allah, they will stop this and will accept the truth right away.

Z: In his epistle to Hebrews, Paul says: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.” Such words go in contrary with the teachings of Jesus himself. Paul saw that people's adherence to the commandments will hinder the mission and will restrain their actions and saw, they should cast them away. All this led to the fact that Christianity has a spiritual aspect but lacks the practical one. There is no definite code of conduct for Christians as the religion has become more relating to priesthood.

X: And this led to the separation of religion from the state as Christianity is a religion without a state. Do not you believe that there is no use of putting the Old Testament (the Torah) beside the New Testament (the Gospel) after Paul has incited his followers to reject it totally. What is the benefit of doing so? The Qur'an says: “The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.” (Al-Jumu`ah: 5)

Z: A deep reading of the Torah will show that it has some faults because of the rabbs' tampering with it. However, it is not a bunch of uselessness as Paul claims. Yes, reading the Torah will show that it is not a perfect book to follow, but it has many benefits and contain a moral code.

X: So, do you believe that you need a book like the Qur'an to help you have a code to follow?

Z: I believe that our need for a book like the Qur'an is becoming greater everyday. Firstly, the Qur'an is a heavenly book, proven to be truthful in its content and miraculous in its nature. Everyday we hear about new scientific discoveries which are mentioned in the Qur'an more than 1500 years ago . Secondly, this book is the only proof of Mary's innocence and purity of all the claims and false accusations directed to her. Almighty Allah sent Muhammad to confirm the truth that Mary is innocent and chaste. The Qur'an tells us that she replied to the Angel who gave her glad tiding of being pregnant with Jesus: “She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste! He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.” (Maryam: 20-21) Also, the Qur'an tells us of many miracles that were performed by Jesus himself: “When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favor unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead, by My permission and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic.” (Al-Ma'idah: 110) Thirdly, the Qur'an addresses both heart and mind and acknowledges the importance of knowledge in guiding man to the truth. Thereby, it respects man's mind. Fourthly, it inculcates man with a feeling of sincerity or God-fearing which makes him maintain purity and truthfulness in all his actions. In this way, man is in no need for someone to have his sins forgiven. He can directly pray to his God , Who will surely forgive him. Fifthly, I wish that our religion be based on a Divine criteria and is never left to the whims of people. Sixthly, the Qur'an gives decisive answers in many critical issues and above all, it helps us overcome our own weaknesses and be united and strong in face of our wicked enemies.

X: This is exactly what God tells us when saying: “Turn unto Him repentant, and surrender unto Him, before there come unto you the doom, when ye cannot be helped. And follow the better (guidance) of that which is revealed unto you from your Lord, before the doom cometh on you suddenly when ye know not.” (Az-Zumar: 54-55) However, there are unfortunately many people who fabricate accusations against Islam and try to damage it. But Almighty Allah turns their conspiracies against them. Those people say that Islam does not respect woman because it allows polygamy while Islam has shown a great respect to women and places them in a very high position. Women are given the right of owning property, well treatment and seeking knowledge and working under Islam. Almighty Allah says: “Unto the men (of a family) belongeth a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, and unto the women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be little or much a legal share.” (An-Nisaa': 7) Islam also says that Paradise lies under the feet of mothers.

Z: I believe that many Prophets had more than one wife, including Abraham, Jacob , David and Solomon , there is not a single verse in the Torah that blames them for this. Paul, on the contrary, considered woman responsible for the original sin, banned divorce and considered celibacy to be the best action. Up to this day, many Christians play wicked tricks and allow adultery instead of permitting polygamy.

X: Here I would like to refer to the book ‘Wives of the Prophet' by Khaled M. Khaled which shows that the Prophet did not marry any woman after the death of his first wife Khadijah until he became fifty three years old. He was faithful to the memory of her just as he used to be while she was alive. Also, his marriages were for the benefit of Islam and most of his wives were widows left by some of his Companions who martyred in the battle field. He married them to honor them.

Z: Orientalists always refer to the life of Jesus who came at time where everything around was messy and material. Jesus strip himself off of all these worldly fake stuff but never encouraged celibacy. Why did Paul then recommended it? How will the society increase and grow if its individuals stop marriage. Also, the banning of divorce has led to so many social evils that have overwhelmed the Christian society. Here, I would like you to tell me if you support polygamy and divorce.

X: It is not my opinion or it is not an issue of personal liking or disliking. God has permitted both polygamy and divorce but did not made them the normal thing , i.e., they are resorted to in certain situations only. For instance, a Muslim cannot go for a second wife without getting the permission of his first wife and cannot do this (i.e. go for polygamy) unless he is sure that he will be just in treating all his wives. Therefore, most of Muslims are monogamists unless in special cases where the first wife is sick or barren. As for divorce, it is the most abhorrent thing in the sight of Allah. However, it provides a solution for cases where the continuity of marital life is impossible.

Z: Some orientalists also claim that Islam has been propagated by the sword, though Jesus Christ called us to resort to force sometimes. They also claim that Islam did not ban slavery which was a widespread phenomena in the Arabian peninsula at that time.

X: As a human being you should be strong of course. However, force was not the first resort of Islam; rather, Islam propagated its principles and introduced its guidance by all peaceful means. However, force was needed sometimes to ward off aggression being launched against Islam and Muslims. Muslims needed to liberate the agonized and longly persecuted people from their occupiers and persecutors. In order to remove those persecutors, force was needed sometimes when other means fail to help. As for the banishing of slavery, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an supporting slavery. On the contrary, Islam commanded the liberation of slaves and encouraged its followers to seize any opportunity to remove them from the chains of slavery.

Z: They always say that Christianity cherishes the life of soul and purifying the body from all whims and desires. It is because of this that it abhors having sex or resorting to force and calls for celibacy and meekness.

X: Allah created man in a certain form and with certain needs. Love is the basis of marital life. It is a bond between both spouses and shows them how to lead a life of mutual respect and honor. If they are afraid they will not be able to fulfill the commands of Allah being together, they can stop this life via divorce. Still, affection and mercy should dominate them in all cases. Almighty Allah says: “And of His signs is this: He created for you helpmeets from yourselves that ye might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are portents for folk who reflect. (Ar-Rum: 21) Having such needs like sex, man needs them to be fulfilled in a way that suits his being an honorable being created by Allah. So, the human instinct of inclining to the members of the opposite sex needs to be channeled and not left for animalistic way. The only way is through marriage which places certain rights and responsibilities towards the parties involved in that relation and even towards the product resulting from that relation i.e. children.

Z: Do you know that priests even go farther to ban their followers from thinking of the hereafter or Paradise. They say we will be admitted to Paradise in another form and know nothing about the Kingdom of the Heavens. These things are unexplainable to me and put a lot of confusion in my mind. I told him that Adam was banished from Paradiswhile being in his physical form which means we will be there again in the same form so as to be subject to reward and punishment in the Hell fire and he answered me that this is what I should believe in. When I asked for any religious text that supports what he says, he rebuked me and produce nothing.

X: Almighty Allah explains such things to us by saying that just like sleeping, death is a longer separation between the soul and the body. Almighty Allah says: “Allah receiveth (men's) souls at the time of their death, and that (soul) which dieth not (yet) in its sleep. He keepeth that (soul) for which He hath ordained death and dismisseth the rest till an appointed term. Lo herein verily are portents for people who take thought.” (Az-Zumar: 42) Just as He can grow the plants from this dead soil, he can bring us back to life. In this way, He says: “He bringeth forth the living from the dead, and He bringeth forth the dead from the living, and He reviveth the earth after her death. And even so will ye be brought forth.And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely!” (Ar-Rum: 19) After bringing us back to life, Allah will reckon us for our deeds. Almighty Allah says: “Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them? Aye, that He is! for He is the All Wise Creator.” (Ya-Sin: 81) When admitted to Paradise, we will enjoy the eternal bliss and the extreme happiness as Allah says: “Lo! those who believe and do good works, theirs are the Gardens of Paradise, for welcome. Wherein they will abide, with no desire to be removed from thence.” (Al-Kahf: 107-108) As a true believer, I can imagine every good thing in Paradise but still what I imagine is still far away less than what is really there.

Z: Do you know that some Christian sects deny the existence of Paradise and Hell-Fire and deny the Last Day altogether. Some others say that God the Father has died and others say Jesus will come down and rule the earth for 1000 years. They fabricate a lot of things.

X: God commands us not to dispute about the unseen unless we have three things, verified knowledge based on reason and logic, divine guidance and then divine texts that explain the nature of that thing. If we dispute without having these three, then we will reach at nowhere. Almighty Allah says: “And among mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah without knowledge or guidance or a Scripture giving light. Turning away in pride to beguile (men) from the way of Allah. For him in this world is ignominy, and on the Day of Resurrection We make him taste the doom of burning.” (Al-Hajj: 8-9)

Z: They even deny some of Allah's Fairest Names. They deny some Names like ‘Al-Jabbar' and ‘Al-Muntaqim' which are mentioned in the Qur'an.

X: Almighty Allah tells us that He pledged Himself to mercy: “And when those who believe in Our revelations come unto thee, say: Peace be unto you! Your Lord hath prescribed for Himself mercy, that whoso of you doeth evil and repenteth afterward thereof and doeth right, (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Al-An'am: 54) Therefore, most of Allah's Names are flowing with mercy and love like ‘The Answerer, the Peace Source, the Forgiving, the Provider…' However, He warns those who persecute others and commit wrongdoing with His other Names.

Z: Sure! When Allah punishes some sinners and unjust people, we can see that His punishment is very wise and suits the wrongdoing they have committed. We can read about many oppressors and unjust rulers who have been punished duly because of their sins.

X: This is a sign and reminder from Allah Who says: “We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things?” (Fussilat: 53) and says: “So We took each one in his sin; of them was he on whom We sent a hurricane, and of them was he who was overtaken by the (Awful) Cry, and of them was he whom We caused the earth to swallow, and of them was he whom We drowned. It was not for Allah to wrong them, but they wronged themselves.” (Al-Anlabut: 40)

Z: I think that the punishment inflicted upon those people is a token of Allah's ultimate justice.

X: Our lives are very short and our stay on earth is temporary and those criminals will come to know that they have been wrong all their life. They will regret when it is too late to regret. Almighty Allah says: “And on the day when the Hour riseth the guilty will vow that they did tarry but an hour thus were they ever deceived.” (Ar-Rum: 55) In fact, there is a big question that shows us how weak and helpless we are; who creates day and night and what will happen if this earth stops moving around the Sun? Can we push it to move? Allah says: “Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made night everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a God beside Allah who could bring you light? Will ye not then hear? Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made day everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a God beside Allah who could, bring you night wherein ye rest? Will ye not then see? Of His mercy hath He appointed for you night and day that therein ye may rest, and that ye may seek His bounty, and that haply ye may be thankful.” (Al-Qasas: 71-73) People should ask themselves such questions to realize that they are so weak.

Z: But some people claim that there are some discrepancies in the Qur'an.

: This is an unverified statement that has no basis indeed. We have one Qur'an and even the translation of the Qur'an is not considered to be Qur'an. Allah has pledged to protect and preserve the Qur'an from any change or alteration: “Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are it's Guardian.” (Al-Hijr: 9)

At this juncture, the train stopped again and both had to stop talking and eat some candy.

Seventh Stop: Qena

X: Do you think that many of your relatives and friends believe in what you tell me now?

Z: Do you know that my mother- may she rest in peace- loved the Prophet and used to say, ‘since Muslims love Jesus and his mother, why do not we love Muhammad, the trustworthy and the truthful Prophet.' She used to memorize some verses from the Qur'an and use them for supplication at times of need and would repeat all the time, “You Most Merciful of all the merciful!” Whenever she needed some spiritual help, she would directly pray to Allah and never go to a priest and never filled our house with crosses and statues. Likewise, my father used to teach us a lot of verses from the Qur'an. He used to teach us that we should verify whatever we hear and never accept it blindly.

X: This is exactly what is meant in the verse that goes: “And when it is said unto them: Come unto that which Allah hath revealed and unto the messenger, they say: Enough for us is that wherein we found our fathers. What! Even though their fathers had no knowledge whatsoever, and no guidance?” (Al-Ma'idah: 104)

Z: This is also what I have believed in since my early days of childhood, for we are bound to use our minds. We will never improve if we blindly imitate our forefathers.

X: The Qur'an also blames those blind imitators saying: “And when it is said unto them: Follow that which Allah hath revealed, they say: We follow that wherein we found our fathers. What! Even though their fathers were wholly unintelligent and had no guidance?” (Al-Baqarah: 170

Z: My father taught us all the time to judge everything with objectivity and was very fond of one of the Hadiths ( traditional sayings of the prophet ) of the Prophet that reads: “ Each one of you is a guardian and is held responsible for those under his guardianship; a leader is a guardian and responsible for his followers, a father is a guardian and responsible for his family, a wife is a guardian and responsible for her husband's household, a servant is a guardian and responsible for his master's money, a man is a guardian and responsible for his father's money and each one of you is thus a guardian and has something to be responsible for.” My father used to teach us that we are accountable before God.

X: Sure, but it looks that your father was a Christian of a special type of people.

Z: Absolutely not. He was just like all other Christians who did not want their kids to be atheists or end up thinking that religion is a bunch of puzzles placed beside each other. My father wanted to inculcate in us the sense of God-fearing. He wanted us to be true believers by guiding us to what is right and updated. It is really stupid to refer all the time to Mandalive table which was written in the 18th century and forget about the updated versions of that table or the latest theories of chemistry or physics that were written later. My father was an enlightened Christian, he has a scientific way of thinking. Our teacher who taught us physics used to tell us to think about and reflect on the universe and see how great signs are in it. Science is our way to God not myths or superstitions.

X: Have you read the verse that reads: “And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture. Even thus speak those who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differ.” (Al-Baqarah: 113) It is good then that some of you say that Muslims are right.

Z: When a Christian believes that his religion bans him from enjoying his life and commands him to lead a life of celibacy, then he will realize that his religion does not fit this life. He will have then to believe that his religion and this life are enemies. In this case, monks shall spend their life in celibacy and set a barrier between them and the world. As for the rest of people, they can go ahead to get money and fulfill their desires.

X: Islam says that man consists of body and soul and he cannot gain happiness except through fulfilling the needs of both his soul and his body. He should a strike a balance between both, since in Islam there is no place for celibacy or monasticism. Almighty Allah says: “Then We caused Our messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow, and gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. But monasticism they invented. We ordained it not for them. Only seeking Allah's pleasure, and they observed it not with right observance. So We give those of them who believe their reward, but many of them are evil livers.” (Al-Hadid: 27) A true Muslim is not required to confine himself to worshipping Allah all the time. Rather, he is required to fulfill his life needs and is rewarded for that: “A person who works for the service of a widow is rewarded like the one who is fighting for the sake of Allah or the one who is spending the whole day in fasting and the whole night in prayer.”

Z: The mission of Jesus was basically a spiritual one since they were absorbed in materialism to their heels. Jesus called us to purify our selves. However, Paul asked us to torture this human body, something which runs against the call of Jesus.

X: I think that the Qur'an showed great respect and honor to this human self created by Allah, for Allah created it in a way that makes it able to be good or bad and man chooses which way to go. Allah says: “And a soul and Him who perfected it. And inspired it (with conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it. He is indeed successful who causeth it to grow. And he is indeed a failure who stunteth it.” (Ash-Shams: 7-10) Allah showed us the two ways and the destiny of those who walk here and there and left the choice to us.

Z: I really believe that the basics of a religion cannot be known through the works wrote by and assemblies held by human beings who are led by their whims and imperfect minds. It should be known through Divine revelation coming from the Creator who knows what is in the hearts and knows the nature of the soul. A balance should be stricken in all cases so as to get a reasonable life.

X: There is a hadith which I love most that goes: “Your Lord has a right over you, your self has a right over you and your family has a right over you. So, give each his due.”

Z: When Paul declared that human soul is evil and set a barrier between her and the society, he led us in a very strict way to the monasteries and prohibited all life pleasures to us.

X: You can find what is really prohibited in this verse: “Say: My Lord forbiddeth only indecencies, such of them as are apparent and such as are within, and sin and wrongful oppression, and that ye associate with Allah that for which no warrant hath been revealed, and that ye tell concerning Allah that which ye know not.” (Al-A`raaf: 33) As for the way to happiness, you can read: “Successful indeed are the believers. Who are humble in their prayers, and who shun vain conversation, and who are payers of the poor due; and who guard their modesty. Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy, but whoso craveth beyond that, such are transgressors, and who are shepherds of thee pledge and their covenant, and who pay heed to their prayers. These are the heirs, who will inherit Paradise: There they will abide.” (Al-Mu'minun: 1-11) This is the way to success and I am sure that Jesus Christ came with the same message but Paul have corrupted this message and altered it.

Z: I believe that the true father of Christianity is Jesus, while the father of the church is Paul who set such fake teachings and led the church away from the true message of Jesus. All this led to disruption and set a barrier between the church and the state.

X: Exactly. As I told you before, Islam came for all people and needed to be strong in order to be protected from any tampering and that is why it reached us intact and pure from any corruption. As for Christianity, it was not protected by a big power and that is why it has been subjected to many changes and its true heirs could not defend it. The whole church system was established in the fourth century.

Z: This is simply what corrupted the true message brought by Jesus. When the church was put under the political authorities and theocratic one, it turned to be an enemy of science and Europe fell in ages of darkness. Then, Islam came and liberated minds and souls.

X: In fact, the very idea of personifying God and placing him in a form of a human being was abhorrent to minds and it led them to reject religion completely .

Z: What makes faith a very superficial thing in the hearts of many Christians is that they have abandoned reading the new testament and sufficed themselves with getting blessing from the priests. Reading the new testament led their minds to embarrassment and confusion and that is why they preferred to stop reciting it.

X: We, Muslims find solace and guidance in the Qur'an. It is easy to understand and memorize it. Each Muslim is commanded to read it wholly one time every month at least and many Muslims do this. A Muslim knows that Allah oversees him and so he resorts to Him seeking help and forgiveness, for Allah is near to all of us: “And when My servant question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them bear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright.” (Al-Baqarah: 186)

: I also believe that the sayings of the Prophet show you the best conduct and encourage you to be good to each other, help one another and work together for the bettering of humanity as a token of showing gratitude to God.

At that moment, they decided to have some rest.

Eighth Stop: Luxor

X: When I read the Torah and the Gospel for the first time, I realized that the Qur'an is really the last message coming from God to people and that the previous messages constitute an introduction to Islam and that the completion of this long process occurred on the day when the Prophet stood in the valley of Wada` and recited to all people the verse that reads: “This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Al-Ma'idah: 3)

Z: We scholars are always led by our minds to judge things with objectivity and fairness. I agree with you that the Qur'an is the final testament and I am in no way here to strike a comparison between the Qur'an and the Bible. But, I tend to say that the Qur'an respects all Prophets and never speaks in a bad way about any of them. Also, the Qur'an proves the existence of Allah and describes Him in a way full of greatness and perfection. It says: “The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?” (Al-An`am: 101)

X: Yes, the Qur'an is even described as being a ‘soul' that gives guidance and life to the dead bodies that are swelled with demons. Almighty Allah says: “And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path. The path of Allah, unto Whom belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Do not all things reach Allah at last?” (Ash-Shura: 52-53)

Z: I read some verses in the Qur'an that start with showing astonishment with those who deny the existence of God while witnessing His blessings everywhere. I really like the way those verses are worded and the logical way they flow.

X: You must be referring to the verses of Surat Al-Waqi`ah that read: “We created you. Will ye then admit the truth? Have ye seen that which ye emit? Do ye create it or are We the creator? We mete out death among you, and We are not to be outrun, That We may transfigure you and make you what ye know not. And verily ye know the first creation. Why, then, do ye not reflect? Have ye seen that which ye cultivate?. Is it ye who foster it, or are We the Fosterer? If We willed, We verily could make it chaff, then would ye cease not to exclaim: Lo! we are laden with debt! Nay, but we are deprived! Have ye observed the water which ye drink? Is it ye who shed it from the rain cloud, or are We the shedder? If We willed We verily could make it bitter. why, then, give ye not thanks? Have ye observed the fire which ye strike out; Was it ye who made the tree thereof to grow, or were We the grower? We, even We, appointed it a memorial and a comfort for the dwellers in the wilderness. Therefore (O Muhammad), praise the name of thy Lord, the Tremendous.” (Al-Waqi`ah: 57-74)

These verses guide us to think about the semen of which we are created. Such words came hundred years before people discover that man is created out of this semen or know anything called genome and chromosome. If Darwin was to read these verses, he would have never dared to write his theory of evolution as the verse tells us that each human being has a special shape of cell and not a single cell of a human being can be changed into another form creating another human being of another kind. The verses also tell us about plants and how they grow and provide our bodies with proteins and vitamins. All this testify to the fact that the Qur'an is coming from the Divine source and no human mind can produce its like. Almighty Allah says: “Say: Verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another.” (Al-Isra': 88)

Z: God supported Jesus with miracles like quickening the dead and supported Moses with other miracles like the stick turning into a snake.

X: And he supported Muhammad with many miracles like the Night Journey and Ascension, the flow of water from between his fingers, and many other miracles. The greatest miracle however is the Qur'an which stands eternally to tell people why do they live and what is the purpose of their whole existence. I never know what is the purpose of life until I read in the Qur'an that this life is a test where we work and do as many deeds as we can and then we will be reckoned in the hereafter and punished or rewarded accordingly. That is why, faith is always linked with good deeds as there is no value for faith if it is not supported by good deeds. Allah says: “Lo! those who believe and do good works, the Beneficent will appoint for them love.” (Maryam: 96)

Z: I become really amazed when I hear some people claiming that religions accept secularism ,i.e. ,they permit people to be good and righteous only inside the mosque or the church. Outside of the places of worship man is free from the values propagated by religion and can do whatever he likes. In other words, they say to people that they live in a jungle and only the strong can rule. According to these people, God is only inside the mosque and the church but not in our daily life. I would like to ask; have those people found tranquility believing in this secularism? I think that mass suicides which represent phenomena nowadays are the best proof of their failure!!!

X: Man is weak; he always needs to be linked to Allah to feel safe and strong. The only way for him to do this is to abide by the teachings of the Almighty. A Muslim sticks to remembering Allah all the time as he believes that Allah owns everything and it is Him Who helps him all the way. Muslim's relation with Allah does not end at the threshold of the mosque because the whole earth is a big mosque for him, so he carries this worship everywhere and is to observe its requirements everywhere. The soul and the body have needs and their needs are fulfilled in a balanced way. Therefore, a Muslim feels that Allah with him all the time, since Allah tells him in the Qur'an: “Hast thou not seen that Allah knoweth all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth? There is no secret conference of three but He is their fourth, nor of five but He is their sixth, nor of less than that or more but He is with them wheresoever they may be; and afterward, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of what they did Lo! Allah is Knower of all things.” (Al-Mujadilah: 7)

Z: I believe that modern Europeans have forged this secular way of life as a response to the monastic way of life shown on part of the church. They did not want to give a chance to the clergy to rule life and bring it back again to the medieval ages. They wanted also to free themselves from all restraints of religion and morality.

X: In fact, separating religion from the state is no more than an attempt to go back to the pagan life which is blamed in the verse that reads: “Is it a judgment of the time of (pagan) ignorance that they are seeking? Who is better than Allah for judgment to a people who have certainty (in their belief)?” (Al-Ma'idah: 50) Almighty Allah set this life in a way that every person would be leading a small state in a way or another, like a father leading a family and the like. In his leadership, a person is to abide by the teachings of Allah and apply justice and perfection as Allah says: “Lo! Allah enjoineth justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbiddeth lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorteth you in order that ye may take heed.” (An-Nahl: 90) A good and just leader is rewarded abundantly according to Islam. In addition, nothing in the secular system would incite the leader to be just and good while in Islam, a leader commits himself to good conduct because he believes in the Last Day where everyone will be reckoned for his deeds and paid according to them: “Woe unto the defrauders: Those who when they take the measure from mankind demand it full, But if they measure unto them or weigh for them, they cause them loss. Do such (men) not consider that they will be again. Unto an awful Day.” (Al-Mutaffifin: 1-5) Those who take their rights in full but never pay others' rights are punished severely by Allah.

Z: So, there is no place for secularism in Islam as soul and body are linked and attached together in Islam and this life is in no way separated from the hereafter. Man is the vicegerent of Allah and works here to be rewarded there.

X: Do you agree that one of the greatest characteristics of Islam is the respect it shows to both mind and knowledge? Islam commands us to leave out what is not acceptable to our minds from the knowledge that within the boundaries of our perception. Almighty Allah says: “And they have no knowledge thereof. They follow but a guess, and lo! a guess can never take the place of the truth.” (An-Najm: 28) And also says: “They who are idolaters will say: Had Allah willed, we had not ascribed (unto Him) partners neither had our fathers, nor had we forbidden aught. Thus did those who were before them give the lie (to Allah's messengers) till they tasted of the fear of Us. Say: Have ye any knowledge that ye can adduce for us? Lo! ye follow naught but an opinion. Lo! ye do but guess.” (Al-An`am: 148)

Z: I am really sure that anyone who claims to be a true believer while having no scientific text or Divine book is merely deceiving himself. I love Jesus a lot and surely believe in him and the Qur'an adds to this faith and fosters it.

X: You see, you use your mind to think and investigate and reach the truth and this is exactly what the Qur'an asks us to do. It talks about ‘thinking' and ‘reflecting' for more than 150 times and blames those who do not use their minds because they will be like animals. Almighty Allah says: “Or deemest thou that most of them hear or understand? They are but as the cattle, nay, but they are farther astray!” (Al-Furqan: 44) In fact, a truly developed and modern person is the one who can help others live according to the code set by their Creator.

Z: I see your point.

X: So, there is no contradiction between Islam and knowledge; rather, knowledge offers a lot of service to Islam and strengthens faith in the hearts of true believers. Islam commands us to seek knowledge. What makes me feel proud is that the industrial revolution that started in Europe was based on the scientific discoveries and efforts of Muslim scientists. When we lagged behind here in the east, it is not because of our religion; rather, because of our ignorance of our religion.

At that point, they had to have some coffee.

Ninth Stop: Edfu

X: Do you know that such great way of thinking and clean heart you have you are considered a Muslim. I believe that many Christians who think in the same way and have the same faith are not far from Islam. Islam offers answers to all questions as Allah says: “And we have revealed the Scripture unto thee only that thou mayst explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.” (An-Nahl: 64)

Z: You will become amazed when you listen to many priests here in Egypt and find that they have been affected to a great deal with Islam and the way of the Qur'an in their sermons. I have seen many of them prostrating themselves to Allah.

X: I think a statement as “Conflict of civilizations', has no place in our life, since we share in Egypt similar values and codes of behaving.

Z: I even believe that the difference between Orthodox for example and Protestant is greater than the difference between true Christianity and Islam. If those people mean by the word ‘dialog of civilizations' a dialog between the East which sticks to its values and principles and the West which has become secularist, then what type of dialog they are referring to. It should be a dialog between someone who believes in values and God and another who believes in the law of the jungle and believes that the ends justify the means. Such secularism has caused two big wars in the world as you know and has led man to destroy his fellow man using the most advanced weapons, nuclear weapons and atomic bombs. Such secularism is responsible for the millions of illegitimate children born out of the wedlock.

X: I believe that the best response to those who deny the merits and the values of heavenly religion is what the Qur'an said to their forefathers: “Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship.And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.” (Al-Kafirun: 1-6) I wish that we, Arabs restore our civilization based on the teachings of Islam and live peacefully together. In fact, all religions have lived together in peace under the protection of Islam and Muslims have never waged any war against anyone to force him to embrace Islam or to destroy his infrastructure as happens now. We should tell the whole world that we share the same land and the same values and we are linked together strongly. We should teach our youth that thinking of the West as being the best example to follow is wrong, for the West lacks faith which is the only way to success.

Z: In his speech at the Islamic Center in London, British Secretary of State Robin Cook stated that the roots of the Western culture is not Greek; rather, Islamic and that Islamic civilization has established the basics of many intellectual fields. Muslim Arabs had led the procession of knowledge and scientific discoveries during the 16th and 17th centuries. We still remember big names like Averroes, Avicenna and Alhazen.

X: This brings us to a very important message which is that we should never surrender to secularism adopted by Europe and America. They destroy values and civilization and turn it to a jungle where there is no place for conscience or mercy. What led to the fall of the former USSR is the abandoning of religion and alienation of its values and leading an animalistic life.

Z: Yes, and I believe that Islam came as a completion of the message of Jesus and Muhammad is not far from him.

X: Sure and even applied the law of God to establish a complete state based on values and morals. This is the real civilization. After 14 centuries, not a single prophet has appeared; something which confirms the fact that Muhammad was the Seal of Messengers and Prophets. Almighty Allah says: “Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things.” (Al-Ahzab: 40) In a course of ten years, Muhammad was able to establish a state that could defeat the world's super powers of that time and liberate the oppressed peoples. Are not these sufficient evidence to the truthfulness of his mission.

Z: Had it not been that Allah supported Muhammad, he would not have achieved all this and the Muslim state would not have been able to stay strong for long.

X: Muslims were able to stand and spread Islam in the our corners of the globe. Still, Islam is the power of the future according to many Western thinkers, for our world is in a bad need for values as it need material aspects. Islam was the first religion establishing a system similar to democracy that is Shura (Islamic mutual consultation). Almighty Allah says: “And those who answer the call of their Lord and establish worship, and whose affairs are a matter of counsel, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them.” (Ash-Shura: 38)

Z: I think that Islam is the best way to reject this secularism which is sponsored by many Western countries. Islam is the only rope to salvation for the present day world as long as we introduce it to people in a good and peaceful manner.

X: But we have a common enemy which is very wicked and evil that is Zionists who have no mercy for anyone. They try to accuse Islam of all bad accusations; they claim that Islam supports terrorism and fosters violence. They try to fool Arabs and devour everything.

Z: Yes and whenever we cite a religious text talking about their wicked nature they claim we are anti-Semitic. They want us to change the words of Jesus who said that they are the astray sheep of Israel.

X: And want us to remove the verses of the Qur'an that testify to their evil nature and their hatred for all people. Why do they claim Semitic origin to themselves only while all Arabs are the sons of Sam son of Noah. If they say that they are the true followers of Moses, then the mission of Moses was an extension of Jacob and Jacob was an extension of Abraham and Muhammad is an extension of Abraham too. Those great Prophets are brothers. Almighty Allah says: “Say: Lo! As for me, my Lord hath guided me unto a straight path, a right religion, the community of Abraham, the upright, who was no idolater.” (Al-An`am: 161)

Now, they had to ask for two cups of tea to stay awake.

Tenth Stop: Kom Ombo

X: Your speech shows that you are very near to Islam, so do you observe Islamic rituals bearing in mind that Allah created man to worship Him as Allah says: “I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.” (Adh-Dhariyat: 56) This life is just a test where we have to work and offer good deeds as Allah says: “Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and He is Able to do all things. Who hath created life and death that He may try you, which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, Forgiving.” (Al-Mulk: 1-2) In order to pass this test successfully, we need patience, for Almighty Allah says: “O ye who believe! Seek help in steadfastness, and prayer. Lo! Allah is with the steadfast.” (Al-Baqarah: 153) In this daily life, we need to pray to God for five times per day where we declare our weakness in front of Him, so do you pray.

Z: Surely yes, we have our own prayer. You know, I find that the Islamic way of performing is more perfect and that is why I perform the five daily prayers and go even for Friday prayer. At the same time, I attend the sermon at the church and find no harm in doing this.

X: You start your pray with praising God and showing gratitude to Him for the blessings He has showered on you. Almighty Allah says: “Hath there come Upon man (ever) any period of time in which he was a thing unremembered? Lo! We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him; so We make him hearing, knowing. Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.” (Al-Insan: 1-3)

Z: Do you know that Christians here in Egypt perform other rituals of Islam like fasting since they spend many days in fasting in the month of Ramadan. They also give charity and help to the poor. When I convert to Islam soon, I will have this written in my passport and will be able to enter the Holy places in Makkah. Thereupon, I will go for pilgrimage.

X: Ok great, but why did not you announce your conversion till now.

Z: Have not you read the verse that goes: “Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.” (Al-Baqarah: 62) I believe in God the One and the true, the Last Day and work as much as I can and this is simply makes me a Muslim even if I do not announce it to people. I see it will not make a change if I announce it right away.

X: You are right. In fact, you remind me of the verse that reads: “And Lo! of the People of the Scripture there are some who believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto you and that which was revealed unto them, humbling themselves before Allah. They purchase not a trifling gain at the price of the revelations of Allah. Verily their reward is with their Lord, and Lo! Allah is swift to take account.” (Al-`Imran: 199) We need such an illuminating understanding to work together for the best of this universe. Christianity that believes in the One true God is surely light and good for the whole human race.

Z: I do not accept what they call the rightist Christianity or the Jewish Christianity since it violates the principles of Jesus Christ himself. It tries to propagate certain principles under the fake veil of being Christianity, like the idea of the chosen people. Who would accept the killing of people and the devouring of their rights and the confiscation of their lands in the name of Jesus, Prophet of peace. How many bloods that are spelt in the name of Jesus while Jesus is innocent of all such bloods.

X: In fact, many fooled Christians would support this so called rightist Christianity.

Z: But our Coptic church has declared its denouncing of all such things. Our priests stand firmly against these atrocities. They also reject the plans of Zionists and their agents like Karl Marx, Lenin and Michel Ingles. I talked to one of my priests about the so called Armageddon and he told me that the whole story of it is fabricated and has no basis at all.

X: I really want our Muslim religious leaders try their best to correct and clarify the distorted image that some Muslims have taken about Christian.

Z: We both, Muslims and Christians, should work together in order to show to the whole world that there is a racist movement that is trying to demolish our creeds and ruin our unity. They want to devour all of us, Muslims and Christians.

X: But how do you see this war against everything Islamic which was launched after the destroying of the twin towers which nobody can tell who has committed it till now?

Z: In fact, the American hawks have led this war and are trying to deceive Muslim rulers to accept their version of the story, forgetting that Islam is a heavy religion.

X: In all the analyses I have read, the conclusions are that such an even was not committed for any purpose other than giving a justification to launch an open war against Islam and Muslims. Islam, in no way, is responsible for such things. Islamic greeting which carries all the meanings of peace and love will never command doing such a thing. Almighty Allah says: “O people of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now hath come unto you light from Allah and a plain Scripture. Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guideth them unto a straight path.” (Al-Ma'idah: 15-16) Islam always condemns the killing of people and the terrorizing of them as Almighty Allah calls upon all of us to enter peace. Allah says: “O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission (unto Him); and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you. And if ye slide back after the clear proofs have come unto you, then know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.” (Al-Baqarah: 208)

Z: In fact, they are launching a war even in our satellite channels and therefore we need to be united and know that both Muhammad and Jesus stepped on the same path and were brothers. In order to follow the path of Jesus and Muhammad, we need to follow their example and work together in unity.

X: True, such satellite channels try to export porn and indecency to our countries and we should do our best to face such moral decay. We should depend on Allah and have trust in Him.

Z: They try to dominate us under the name of human rights. However, we will be able to face this so long as we have illuminated people like yourself and other priests who can work with Muslim scholar to come up with a plan of strengthening the society.

X: Let's call upon all academics and scholars, priests and clergymen, educationalists and everyone to help us in this mission. They all should know and let others know that a true Muslim is not different from a true Christian. The whole thing is that we should search for the common grounds and work on them.

Z: I wish our priests would replace the Old Testament with the Qur'an so as to bring the truth to so many people and make everything clear to them.

X: Faith grows where there is conviction and this can achieved by reading. You can never force anyone to accept your creed. Almighty Allah says: “And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?” (Yunus: 99) We should really offer something for tomorrow where we do not know where we will be, dead or alive. Almighty Allah says: “O ye who believe! Observe your duty to Allah. And let every soul look to that which it sendeth on before for the morrow. And observe your duty to Allah! Lo! Allah is informed of what ye do. And be not ye as those who forgot Allah, therefore He caused them to forget their souls. Such are the evil doers. Not equal are the owners of the Fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious.” (18-20)

Z: It was really a very nice, interesting and comprehensive dialog. Do you think people need to listen to it?

X: Why not? We can publish it in a book and give it the title: “A Friendly Dialog about Religion”

Z: I wish people will find guidance and illumination in it.

Afterwards, they had to sleep for some time before they leave the train at their destination; Aswan.

____________________________________________

Sources:

1. The Holy Qur'an: Printed in Year 612 and the original copies are found in 12 cities all-over the world.

.Al-Fath Al-Kabir from the Hadiths of the Messenger of Allah by Nasir Ad-Din Al-Albany (Al-Maktab Al-Islami, Beirut 1988)

3.The Holy Bible (The Book of the Protestant) printed in 1970

4. Te cassette tape having the dialog

[1]An-Nisa: 170

[2] Al-`Ankabut: 46

[3] Al-`Imran: 64

[4] Al-Ma'idah: 82-83

[5] Al-`Imran: 42

[6] Mary: 43

[7]Al-Baqarah: 136

[8] Luqman: 22

[9]Ar-Ra'd: 28